James Lane and Holland Van Den Nieuwenhof recently completed a feature length documentary on the Oklahoma bombing, A NOBLE LIE, which reveals numerous deficiencies with the official story, and which details an alternative explanation for the event. Reviews of the film to date have been quite positive. To promote the film, Alex Jones has been featuring interviews with the filmmakers, along with new discussions with family members, investigators, rescue workers and witnesses from the day.
This very good interview was recorded on December 16th 2011. It begins with the subject of the Oklahoma bombing, then branches out to cover False Flag events in general, and the probable use of MK-Ultra patsies with those same, government sponsored events. The MK-Ultra linking of McVeigh to the young Afghan prisoners under ‘treatment’ at Guantanamo, and the likely use the latter will eventually be put to, is startling, but makes sense upon reflection. In light of the significant dots joined throughout this discussion – some of which, for me, were quite eye-opening – I’ve transcribed the whole discussion for the record.
The documentary is already available on DVD, but will apparently be released for free on Youtube in the near future. I’ve placed a link to the interview itself at the end of this post, and will add some other related interview links later. I’d be curious to hear what others here think about the MK-Ultra revelations discussed in the latter part of this transcript, and the uses the government has likely found in the past for Dr Jolyon West, protégé of Ewen Cameron.
THE ALEX JONES SHOW – December 16th 2011.
Interview with Holland Van Den Nieuwenhof and James Lane, directors of A NOBLE LIE: OKLAHOMA CITY 1995
ALEX JONES: Now, I’ve interviewed James Lane on the radio before, and then also today again on the radio, and I had Chris Emery the producer of the film on, and they covered a lot of great information, and Holland Van Den Nieuwenhof has been obviously here at the office before whenever he shot the new film A NOBLE LIE: OKLAHOMA CITY 1995, and so he’s going to join us here today. He’s the writer and researcher for the film. This is the only modern film in the last decade since the 16 year-old tragedy at Oklahoma City at the Alfred P. Murrah building. The only modern film, and the most professional ever made, and it’s got many of the victims, many of the eyewitnesses in it. It really is an incredible achievement, and it’s so important now - because as we know those that don’t know history are doomed to repeat it – it’s so critical right now that we understand that they’re gearing up to stage these events again. And they’re so arrogant, they’ve had all these top globalists basically bragging and saying a new Oklahoma City will help us get our agenda through, and the Financial Times of London, you name it, it’s super creepy… And so I want to encourage everyone to support the filmmakers, also the Infowars operation, but more importantly get a tool to wake up others, and to show your friends and family, and to go to Infowars.com and get it, because if you order by Sunday night, we can guarantee you it can be shipped out to you before Christmas, so Infowars.com, or 888-2533-139, and then have viewing parties, show it to your friends and family, so that they understand false flag terror, because if we expose that system, we checkmate the Globalists where they cannot continue these Reichstagian, self-inflicted wound operations. So again, James Lane, who is the director, and Holland Van Den Nieuwenhof, join us to break this down.
Holland, every time I get you on, I butcher your cool name. Did I get it right the second time?
HOLLAND VAN DEN NIEUWENHOF: Ah, the first time you got it right, it’s Van Den Nieuwenhof.
JONES: Ha ha, Van Den Nieuwenhof., so easy when you hear it. I can barely say Jones. Good to have you here with us gentlemen. You spent two years making the film. Briefly, Holland, break down what you think is so powerful about the film, and why it’s so important, and then let’s launch into – because I got another question today – who do we know was involved at the highest levels in the cover-up, and in the bombing itself, and what are some of the other key points we didn’t cover on the radio?
NIEUWENHOF: Well, what’s unique about this film, is that we were able to compile the amazing trail of evidence compiled by independent investigators, police officers, and so forth, and the Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee over the past 16 years, package it, and show it to the American people, because all of this information, most of it has been reported before, but the mainstream media just won’t cover it. Also, we’ve been able to break new ground with our own investigation. This was half movie making, half investigation. We’ve talked to witnesses who have never exposed themselves before, who have never talked to the public or put their name out there before, to expose this information about the bombing.
JAMES LANE: One thing that we try to do in this movie, Alex, is actually boil it down to the most provable essence. If not, it would have been a 10-hour movie. This is going to be the last time that people are going to be able to hear the actual eyewitness testimony of people that were actually in that building. They said this is the last time they’re going to do an interview. We just want one cohesive package that encapsulates the entire event. If you know everything about the bombing, or nothing, you’re going to walk away with something new from this, because we cover the information that was gathered by the Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee. We cover the official story, and then we deconstruct it. Then we get into some of the newer information, that folks like Jesse Trentadue – who you’ve had on the show before – the information they’ve uncovered most recently through FOI requests and lawsuits that he’s done against the FBI and the DOJ.
JONES: James, and then Holland, crystallise in two minutes each the key evidence of Oklahoma City, and the motive.
NIEUWENHOF: Well, what we can demonstrate is that the Ryder truck bomb, for one, was not the sole cause of destruction to the Murrah building. That there were other people also involved who assisted McVeigh, and these people were ignored by the U.S. government. That some of these people were U.S. government informants, and we have the paper and name them by name. We name some of the agents involved, we name some of the government figures involved. Terry Nichols, in prison, gave an affidavit, and he has nothing to gain by lying about his role. He is suffering under two life sentences. He’s never leaving jail. He named Larry Potts. Tim McVeigh had told him that Larry Potts, assistant director of the FBI, was in charge of the operation that culminated in the Oklahoma City bombing. Louis Freeh, head of the FBI, is now retired and now in charge of the Kent State investigation, that child abuse scandal going on there, so we can be sure that truth and justice will not be achieved in that matter, as it was not achieved in Oklahoma City. The victims here, we have shown this movie to the people involved, people who were in the building. They approve of our endeavours. They know. They want the story out. We were lied to about every aspect of the bombing, top to bottom. What is amazing is that they were able to get away with it, and that the mainstream media did not cover all of these points in a cohesive package that the American people can see and say “This is a lie, and why is it happening?” This can all be erased, all our doubts erased by releasing the security videotapes that surround the Murrah building that show exactly what happened. Who drove that truck? What exactly happened at the building? Sixteen years later, they say they don’t have them, or they’re lost, or that the tapes they have released, they were all having their tapes changed at the same time, 9:02 am, which is ridiculous. The official story and its excuses are very implausible, and once the American people see this, they’ll come to understand the true nature of terrorism, and question everything that their government says from now on.
LANE: Absolutely, and then, you know, they say the primary explosive was ammonium nitrate and fuel oil that was in the Ryder truck that day. We’ve got eyewitness testimony from the survivors of that building. I mean, who are you going to believe, the people that were actually there, or the people that are trying to push the official story? They said that the building was coming down 8 to 10 seconds before the truck bomb went off. They thought it was an earthquake! They had enough time to get under their desks before the glass blew in. According to the FEMA report, that blast wave from the truck was moving at 1300 feet per second. The story just doesn’t hold water according to the people that were actually there. When you add that with the fact that we’ve got Brigadier General Partin who does an analysis of the bombing showing where the additional ordinance would have been placed. You’ve got Dr Samuel Cohen, the inventor of the neutron bomb, saying that it would be against the laws of physics, no matter how much ammonium nitrate and fuel oil was used, to bring that building down. We’ve got a report from Edmond Air Force base where they constructed a single larger explosive, set it off next to a weaker structure, and it did less damage. It was their conclusion that there had to be additional ordinance inside the building. We’ve got Officer Terence Yeakey, a real hero that day, he saved 8 people’s lives, but he was on the scene within minutes… One of the hallmarks of an ammonium nitrate and fuel oil bomb is a nitrate gas cloud, be it in Ireland, be it 41 years ago at Sterling Hall, where the ammonium nitrate bomb was set off, the first 26 responders were hospitalized from the inhalation of nitrate gas. That did not happen, and Terry Yeakey saving people from the building that day within minutes proves that there was no nitrate gas cloud.
JONES: Alright, I want to add a key piece of evidence here, and Holland, you started to get into it. Not one, not two, but three different high level FBI agents, including Larry Potts, the deputy director head of counter terrorism, said he was in Dallas, took a South-West airlines flight. Even mainstream media said there were no flights going in that day, at that time. Then he said, “Oh, I drove”. This is a guy caught like in a movie, “Oh, I did this, I did that…” . Hotel receipts of him the day before, which people need to look into, because he’d been seen. So right there we know they were on the ground. It fits into what McVeigh and others had said. They needed to go after the State rights movement that was centred around Oklahoma. They needed to demonise the growing militia movement. They needed to kind of cover up what had happened at Waco with the flare footage, and the killing there that was coming out in congress right at that time. Bill Clinton told USA Today on Air Force One, right after being elected, he said “I owe my re-election to Oklahoma City”. And now there are advisors today, we cover it on the radio, there’s a whole bunch of them, perhaps you can talk to this, who are saying “We need a new Oklahoma City to blame domestic groups”. I mean, that’s how dumb they think we are, and we’re right up to the same point. Talk about Potts, but then I want to expand into Eric Holder, who was involved in the cover-up, we’ve got his emails thanks to the lawsuits with Jesse Trentadue and others getting the information through FOI. But we have Holder running a False Flag with tens of thousands of guns into Mexico, and drugs back into the US, that’s now all confirmed, we knew it back in January of this year. I mean, this is big medicine, this is big news… If they shipped thousands of guns into Mexico and killed hundreds, why wouldn’t they stage this? I mean it shows… and then the memos, ABC, CBS got ‘em, where they said we’re going to do this to blame the Second Amendment. There’s a False Flag confimed!
NIEUWENHOF: Exactly. Fast and Furious is making the headlines right now where it shows that the ATF is documented, along with the FBI, with shipping guns to Mexico. That has killed thousands of people, and Eric Holder, the Attorney General of the United States, responsible for enforcing the laws of the land, back in 1995, he was in charge of the FBI investigation, the Department of Justice investigation into the Oklahoma City bombing, and in charge of the cover-up of the murder of Kenneth Trentadue in Federal custody. We have his emails where he talks about the “Trentadues and Trenta-don’ts” on how to cover up the story, and the Trentadue story led directly to Oklahoma City, so what you have in the headlines now is Holder implicated right now in a False Flag operation that has killed thousands of people and continues to kill thousands of people…
JONES: You’re right, the Mexican government and the U.S. admit over two thousand, you’re right, it’s not hundreds, it thousands, and it’s at least six cops and border control on our side. Please continue.
NIEUWENHOF: So we have him implicated in what is now being reported in the mainstream media as legitimately a False Flag operation. Holder, back in 1995, was in charge of another False Flag operation, the Oklahoma City bombing. This is why this movie is so timely. We’re showing this is a continual pattern, and if these people are not held accountable for their crimes, they rise up in power and they commit even greater crimes.
LANE: Every time the body count goes up, you know, that’s why we have to hold them accountable, and this movie is going to be a tool, because it’s so easy to poke holes through the official story of the Oklahoma City bombing. They’ve gotten a little more sophisticated more recently, but the Oklahoma City bombing story is just so easy to disprove.
NIEUWENHOF: And the American people haven’t seen it in this platform just destroyed from top to bottom. It holds absolutely no water, and what we can conclusively prove with this movie at the very least, is that the official story is a lie.
JONES: Alright, well I want to give you guys about a 95 on film review, and I think I can only give one of my films a 95. I mean, I want to be honest with folks here reviewing the film that the information is five stars, 100%, the quality of the Hi-Def footage has never before been seen. You know, we got the original TV tapes, the interview you got with survivors, all these people, amazing… There’s a few areas, this happens in my films, where there’s on the fly interviews, the audio is a little hot or a little low, but overall, for your first film, I mean it’s just incredible, and it shows the passion that you guys brought to this. I mean this is really a powerful film, and I know a lot of people out there with a lot of influence watch this show, listen to this show…. Listen, none of us are safe if we don’t expose this, and I just want to say, people should get the film. I mean, it’s not going to film festivals, it’s not going that whole route, it’s right to the public, and it’s up to the people for A NOBLE LIE to have the effect it should. I mean, if this got seen 35 million times for free online, I know soon it’s going to come out online, like OBAMA DECEPTION has had, imagine how this would hurt the globalists, because their secret weapon is False Flag. It is their go-to zeitgeist. We’ve got to take that weapon away from them!
LANE: Exactly, and what this movie does, is it shows the methodology of State-sponsored terror. At the time of the Oklahoma City bombing there was a patriot movement in this country, people were talking about a restoration of the constitution, and the expansion of the police state powers. They were resisting the anti-terrorism legislation that was trying to be passed. After the Oklahoma City bombing it completely silenced anybody that opposed the globalization agenda. Even to this day, if you oppose the expansion of government power, you’re a McVeigh. They love to throw that term out, and then about the time the patriot movement started to get renewed, we had 9/11. Same pattern. It shows Oklahoma City was a pre-cursor to 9/11. I mean, after the event the Patriot Act passed, you know, everyone was begging to have their freedoms taken away. Prior to 9/11 they never would have accepted it. And now we have a new patriot movement in this country and exposing these events, it’s going to take away their False Flag power. Just like Kurt Haskell, where he said he wanted to make sure the underwear bomber case was exposed, because he knew there was something wrong with 9/11. That shows that people in this movement are having an effect, and we are taking the tools away from the new world order, and not allowing them to murder people and ride our ashes to their own political ends.
JONES: Holland, let’s get more into your list there from your research, because you guys are there in Oklahoma, some members of your team over a decade just obsessed with this, because you should be, it’s a mass murder and the government did it, my god, this is incredible, and it’s incredible how they’ve used it undoubtedly to take our liberties and write public memos about how wonderful it was. That’s their total arrogance at us, because they know the public’s naïve. It’s time to stop being children and admit this. Let’s go over some more of the nasty people who were red-handed there, and part of the operation. I mean, you’ve got the Governor’s brother… What about him publishing a book before the thing where a… what - a ‘Tom McVeigh’ is part of the ‘secret circle’, or whatever, and blows it up. I mean, this is incredible.
NIEUWENHOF: Some of these facts are just so amazing, that they wouldn’t even pass the plausibility test in a fiction story. We have the brother of the Oklahoma governor at the time of the bombing, Frank Keating. His brother, Martin Keating, who was a self-admitted insider in military intelligence, writes a book called FINAL JIHAD. According to the publisher, this book was written in 1992. This was about the time, mind you, that McVeigh was being recruited for secret government activities out of the army according to his own admission. Martin Keating writes a book called FINAL JIHAD, which features a character named ‘Ted McVeigh’ who tries to bomb a federal building in Oklahoma City, a plot that is foiled by a State trooper. Now, we take that fiction, that so-called fiction, we look at the real idea that was presented to us the day of the bombing, is that McVeigh gets arrested after the bombing, in Oklahoma, by a State trooper. Now, this obviously is not a co-incidence, and no one can defend that. Obviously there was inside knowledge on the part of the Governor’s office. We have talked to people who have traced a call from the Governor’s office to Walter Read army hospital…
JONES: By the way, let me stop you. It did come out, they wrote it in ’92, it came out in like ’94, and what’s weird is after I made a big deal about this like eight years ago, on Wikipedia, and on… but I own a copy, there’s one here in the office, I just happen to mention this as a factoid. So I have the one published in ’94. They come back out with it and say original publishing date 1996. I mean, that shows again what they’re doing. It’s so amazing that even on Amazon they change the tale.
LANE: Well, they always try to cover their tracks. That was something that we saw here in the Oklahoma City case is, the early hours, the truth always comes out in the media. Within hours they get control of the story and start pushing whatever cover-up they’re going to perpetrate. In Oklahoma, only one news station maintained any integrity for a few months, which was Channel 4. Then the New York Times came in, bought the local news station, fired the program director and the lead reporter, and then any information that contradicted the official story was completely silenced.
NIEUWENHOF: The local media tried to do a good job here, and we could see first-hand how the Feds came in, and how the New York Times came in, and squashed all independent enquiry into the bombing. Channel 4 was interviewing John Doe number two witnesses talking about what the tapes really showed, talking about the second bombs, talking about accomplices. Then all of a sudden it was just shut down.
JONES: And let’s expand on that.
NIEUWENHOF: Well, Channel 4 started basically the original enquiry into the bombing. The first questions raised were why the Office of the Bureau of the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in the building was empty. The ATF, which had started the Branch Davidian raid two years before to the day, was the supposed target of the attack, but their office is empty. One of the men who responded to the bombing, and who was trying to look for his wife, he talked to an ATF agent who told him that they had been paged, notified by their pagers, to not come in to work that day.
JONES: Well that’s right, and Terrance Yeakey and some of the doctor’s involved said within a minute after it happened they were in full gear, demanding “Patch me up! I was up in there!”, and they were like “No you weren’t!”.
NIEUWENHOF: Terrance Yeakey and Doctor Plumley were asking questions about when they showed up, why there were certain Federal officials there on site. FBI officials too. The FBI headquarters is several miles away. There were people there already and yet Terrance Yeakey was four blocks away. He was the first person to respond. A lot of questions raised. We show in this movie that the ATF story about what they were doing in that story is a lie.
JONES: …And they practiced months before in New Mexico blowing up a Ryder truck. I mean, there is no end to these people. There is really no end to how evil they are. My god, it is just unspeakably wicked. But, you know, talking about the censorship, buying up that TV station, and everything else that we saw, and changing the publishing date on this book, that just shows you how scared they are of info. If this info didn’t have power, if the global terrorists, the social engineers were invincible, they wouldn’t care. I mean, seeing now military on the streets, checkpoints, gun arrest citizens, training that Oklahoma city investigators, including State reps, are terrorists, you get the manuals. I mean, it looks cartoonish because it’s so over the top, but it’s really happening. But you look at Hitler, Stalin, Mao, that looks cartoonish. Why did they put up with it? Well, it’s the authorities. So, seeing everything happening today as it all comes true, this just adds to the urgency. Your views on that.
LANE: Well, it’s very timely, because as we talked about the NDAA bill passing, with the indefinite detention of American citizens without trial, even if they’re found innocent, you say, well, okay, who are they going to round up? Through Operation Defuse documents, internal fusion centre documents were leaked to us that show ‘Okcbombing.net’, which was a website originally run by the Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee and State Representative Charles Key, is listed under ‘domestic terrorism’. I mean, this shows the people that they want to round up, because these institutions primary goal above anything else is self-preservation, and they have to silence anybody that has the audacity to expose the crimes of the global oligarchy.
JONES: By the way, we’ve talked to investigative journalist Wayne Madsen and others, who have talked to high-level federal informants. Judge Roll – and I’ve seen other connections showing this – Judge Roll, who got shot in the Gifford situation, and I heard this at the time, and I was like ‘No…’, that it was about a gun-running thing, and he was going to expose it and was meeting with her secretly, in a kind of a trans-partisan deal. But now there’s evidence that that was really a hit to basically cover up what was happening. But I mean, there it is. Just six, eight months ago they were saying it’s a conspiracy theory, we didn’t ship guns into Mexico, we only watched them at gun shops. Then it turned out they ordered them to do it, that was just a cover to blame the second amendment, they were really shipping 18-wheelers of guns in, cocaine back in, and now it’s all there. New York Times, El Paso Times, Chicago Tribune, we’ve all covered it here in probably 15 reports.
NIEUWENHOF: Well, I mean, you see how the media is controlled this way. The same week we released our movie, Newsweek magazine released on its internet organ The Daily Beast an article that is supposed to be an expose of Operation Patcon in the early 90’s. Patcon may have been the genesis of the Oklahoma City bombing. Patcon was an operation that the FBI and the ATF undertook to infiltrate every so-called dissident group in the country…
JONES: Yeah, I know, McVeigh was part of that, going to every gun show, the Davidians, every event to scope out who they wanted to blame for the attack.
NIEUWENHOF: But when you look at the Newsweek article when it was finally released, all mention of Tim McVeigh, Andy Strassmeir – who we have sighted in the Murrah building, with bombs – and Operation Patcon have been excised from the final version of the article, and that has been proven because the original article was leaked out. So, they are still exercising the cover-up here. They do not want Patcon getting out, because that was where Oklahoma City may have been born, because it could prove that they were watching McVeigh, that McVeigh was surrounded by government informants from day one.
JONES: No no, exactly, they always use another operation as the cover umbrella, just like with the 7/7 attack in England. It’s admitted the government ran drills on the exact bus, the exact trains attacked at the exact same place, at the exact same time. It’s something like twenty-something tredecillion. That’s billions of time all the grains of sand in the world that that would happen. 9/11, every one of these events, so that if other government agencies bust the inter-criminal group doing it, they say oh, it’s just a drill, like 9/11 with Tripod II, with Giuliani, the attacks on the towers.
LANE: Yes, and we actually have a Senate aide that told Charles Key that they had information that it was a sting operation that had gone bad.
JONES: That’s like World Trade Centre, where they cooked the bombs, trained the driver, the informant says you’re going to let it go forward, know’s they’re setting him up. He records the FBI, Emad Salem, saying go ahead and let it happen, same deal. He was smart enough though, to record them, so we have New York Times, CBS news, yes the government allowed it to take place. No, they didn’t allow it to take place – they did it!
LANE: Yeah, and what happens with this, is even the agents that were not necessarily involved in taking the operation live, they’re complicit in the cover-up to preserve themselves, and their pensions, you know, so it gets the whole institution involved in the cover-up.
NIEUWENHOF: Well, we see the mechanism for a False Flag operation. They take an existing operation, they insert a few key personnel, and they turn it to their own ends. The Oklahoma City bombing was originally supposed to be a big publicity stunt. That bomb was supposed to explode early the previous night and destroy an empty building, that’s what they were waiting on, a big P.R stunt, that’s not what happened though.
JONES: And that’s why McVeigh got so mad, we’re told, because he didn’t want to kill kids.
NIEUWENHOF: Exactly, and then once they messed up, and it blew up and killed over 100 people, almost 200 people, now everyone goes into cover-up mode for what they think is a tremendous foul-up, but it’s not, it actually did go along according to the plan, and that’s how they get the cover-up installed, and it’s not like every agent on the street is covering up the facts that the FBI blew up the Murrah building…
JONES: No, it’s declassified that Lee Harvey Oswald had a top security clearance at a U-2 base in Japan, was CIA, the documents have now been declassified, and they set him up, and he’s like “I’m a patsy”, and they’re like “You’re not going to talk” – boom! – with a guy they know has already got cancer. Jolyon West, McVeigh’s doctor, is involved with that, who is in the congressional hearings – folks, I know this sounds crazy, but you got to look it up for yourself – as the number two guy under Ewen Cameron for mind control programs in MK-Ultra. I mean, you cannot make up how weird this is.
LANE: Yeah, and people would question “Well, if he was a government agent working, why would he not expose the people that were higher up?”, and whenever Dr Jolyon West comes on the scene consulting with the defence team immediately after the bombing… This guy’s worked with Sirhan Sirhan, Jack Ruby, Patty Hearst, you know, any of these big events, and then all of a sudden they’re silent on what happened. You know, I think that’s a good possibility as to why McVeigh wasn’t talking after the event. And then you see that Dr Jolyon West actually passes the torch to his protégé, we obtained information where his protégé John Smith took over with McVeigh, that guy is now in charge of psychology at Guantanamo Bay.
JONES: Which they admit has another base within it where they do mind-control studies. That’s even Washington Post, and then they release those guys to become Al-Qaida leaders leading the Libya attack.
NIEUWENHOF: Exactly, it’s kind of a self-perpetuating cycle. They create these zombie killers in these mind-control camps. What we see at Guantanamo Bay is that you have Camp X-Ray, and then you have what the guards call Camp Nowhere, which is a camp that’s not on the map, where the real heavy stuff goes down.
JONES: And they admit that’s CIA doctors.
LANE: Right, and they use the three D’s – dependency, debilitation and dread. This was pioneered by Ewen Cameron and Jolyon West. They’re using that at Guantanamo Bay, and I think this is probably why they’re not interested in older, so called ‘Al Qaida’ people being put in there. They want kids.
JONES: They want kids, that’s why it came out again in the Washington Post and in Operation Jawbreaker, that they wanted 12-year old kids in Afghanistan, that’s who they mainly were grabbing, because they can purely program them, and these are going to be the terrorists they’re going to unleash on America, and for those that don’t know, there’s History Channel specials even, admitting that Ewen Cameron, Jolyon West’s boss, would grab foster children, and put them on hallucinogens for years straight frying their brain with audio recording who they were, and key words to get food to stop the dread, putting on PCP, dancing around in dental outfits, terrorising five-year old girls. I mean, this country is run by absolute psychopathic killers, and it came out in Guantanamo Bay… …I’m not even going to say on air what they do to those people, I mean it is unbelievable, man, and they’re all going to hit us with Jihadi attacks, and then they’ll say we’ve got to stick our hands down your children’s pants because we’re fighting Al-Qaida, who publically works for them.
NIEUWENHOF: Exactly, I mean, what we see there is that they create the actual problem, this is the False Flag attack, they create the actual problem, and people who have a hard time believing that this government, or a faction of this government could have pulled off Oklahoma City, look at what the CIA has been doing to countries overseas for decades. Fostering coups, putting in military strongmen that kill thousands of people, doing fake bombings under Operation Gladio in Europe and Italy. The Italian senate has accused the CIA of being involved in the Bologna train station bombing…
JONES: No no, their former president, who was the head of their intelligence agency at the time said he was involved in it, and he said 9/11’s an inside job. That’s the big Italian papers. You’re absolutely right.
NIEUWENHOF: So when they bring that mechanism home to affect change here, why should we be surprised? Like we said, if you don’t hold them accountable, they will continue to do their crimes, and make them greater. What incentive do they have to stop? None.
JONES: And the only reason we’re still alive, is that if they kill us, it highlights everything we’ve said, exclamation points. They still may do it, but once you understand these are cold-blooded killers who even set up their own agents who were going to bomb an empty building, and then McVeigh throws a fit, and we’ve talked to the witnesses, you know, family and others, lawyers, as you said, “I’m not going to blow kids up”, forget this, they’re like, they had already psychologically pegged that he was Dudley Do-Right, and was going to do that. They were already… because it’s run by 170 level IQ psycho psychiatrists, this whole thing is run by them.
NIEUWENHOF: They’ve had decades to hone their technique. I mean MK-Ultra started in the 1950’s, it went into the 60’s under that name, and then it changed, and it went underground, I mean they’ve had decades to hone it.
JONES: And they profiled McVeigh, they profiled Lee Harvey Oswald.
NIEUWENHOF: McVeigh’s military records from special forces were never released, his psychological records were never released, and what medical records we do have are very disturbing. He was going to the doctor, at last count, over 100 times in just three years in the military. That is highly unusual for someone in the combat arms, highly unusual for someone like McVeigh who claims never to have had any health problems. He’s going to the dentist once a week for over a year, claims he has no dental problems, what is he doing, what is he going under? We don’t know, and they have never released all those records in full, in fact, those records on McVeigh were sealed on orders of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
JONES: Exactly, it’s national security everywhere. Gentlemen, great job, look forward to talking to you again, and interviewing some of the people that are in your film. Amazing job, available at Infowars.com, people got to get this video out to everybody, look forward to talking to you soon. Thank you gentlemen.
INTERVIEW PT. 1
INTERVIEW PT. 2
Some follow-up interviews with Oklahoma City bombing witnesses and investigators. Jones will reportedly continue these into the New Year.
THE ALEX JONES SHOW - December 20th 2011
Interview with Hoppy Heidelberg, member of the 1995 Oklahoma Grand Jury, with James Lane
THE ALEX JONES SHOW - December 22nd 2011
Interview with Don Browning, K9 Unit police officer for Oklahoma City and member of the bombing search and rescue team, with Holland Van Den Nieuwenhof